Dollar Value Reasons to Install Art in Your Commercial Real Estate!

On This Episode of Peak Market Watch...

Dollar Value Reasons to Install Art in Your Commercial Real Estate!

Martha Weidmann, CEO of NINE dot ARTS, and Anton Mattli, together with this week’s co-host, John Martinez, discuss dollar value reasons to install art in your commercial real estate!

Episode Highlights:

  • There are holistic as well as dollar value reasons to install art in commercial real estate
  • Attractive spaces including art installations will raise the profile of a property with the local community and prospective tenants through news outlets, social media, etc.
  • Attractive spaces will generate traffic for prospective tenants and increase retention of existing tenants
  • While tenants of Class A buildings expect attractive spaces including art installations, C and B class tenants will be drawn to attractive spaces, too!
  • Murals are an excellent way to improve the visibility of a property.

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VIDEO TRANSCRIPTION

00:00
listeners the regular listeners they
00:02
obviously
00:04
connect with us primarily talking about
00:06
investing in commercial real estate and
00:09
related financing
00:10
so it’s a it’s a special treat to have
00:13
you on today because
00:15
you you talk about a little bit of a
00:18
different
00:18
topic which i think is very important
00:21
which is to to make a property
00:24
more appealing to to tenants as well as
00:28
to to the surrounding communities so why
00:31
don’t you give us a brief background
00:33
about uh
00:34
what you’re doing and what 9. is all
00:37
about
00:38
well i’m happy to be here on the show
00:41
because you know in our world
00:43
art can sometimes be seen as
00:46
uh you know a an afterthought or
00:50
a luxury item but i’m here to make the
00:52
case today
00:53
that art can enhance the value of your
00:56
property
00:56
and smart developers should really
00:58
harness that as a tool
01:00
to increase the roi for their assets and
01:03
involve the local community
01:05
and really maintain visibility for being
01:08
a unique property and while art
01:12
might for some feel like something that
01:14
is aloof or unachievable
01:16
it’s actually a fantastic way to
01:19
be a more approachable company to show
01:21
your humanity
01:23
and to engage the local resources that
01:26
are right there
01:27
at your doorstep so excited to be here
01:29
today
01:30
to talk more about what we do at nine
01:32
dot arts our history as a firm
01:34
we began 11 years ago in the art
01:37
consulting industry
01:38
we have grown to complete projects in 35
01:41
states
01:42
four different countries and we’ve
01:44
contributed 35 million to the creative
01:46
economy since we began
01:47
in 2009 so we work with over 10 000
01:51
artists
01:52
most of those are based in the united
01:54
states and
01:55
i’m happy to be here today to talk more
01:58
about
01:58
how art can impact the value of your
02:00
real estate
02:01
yeah great introduction uh that’s uh
02:05
really appreciated sean if you’re just
02:08
sorry i interrupted you
02:10
oh no we’re just staying great
02:14
yeah so obviously
02:17
from a investment perspective
02:21
everyone is looking at the numbers right
02:24
ideally you want to spend the least
02:26
amount of money to generate
02:28
the highest possible return but
02:31
all of that is a is a balancing act
02:34
right the reality is
02:36
that uh whether you spend money
02:39
on uh on on on the brick or
02:42
on another material on the outside as
02:45
well as
02:46
in the interior build out yes you can
02:49
save money but at some point you
02:51
you spend not enough money to attract
02:54
the right tenants and as a result
02:55
also cannot spend uh uh cannot get the
02:59
rents
03:00
that you would expect and uh i would say
03:03
as
03:04
only art is a is a similar element that
03:07
that comes into play here so
03:10
maybe martha if you can give us a little
03:13
bit of uh
03:14
an idea what what one should expect
03:18
in terms of uh improvement from a from a
03:21
rental perspective now obviously
03:24
it’s always very difficult when it comes
03:26
to these type of items similar to
03:28
a color choice or a material choice it’s
03:30
not a black and white where one can say
03:32
yes that is
03:33
increasing the uh the roi but by
03:37
x percentage but maybe you still can
03:39
give us a little bit of a sense of
03:41
what the value creation can be for uh in
03:46
dollar terms
03:47
for for for for a pro
03:50
for a landlord well i’ll talk first
03:53
about value creation from a more
03:55
holistic perspective and then would like
03:57
to give some
03:58
more specific information on recent
04:00
reports that have come out about dollar
04:02
values
04:02
tied to commercial real estate that’s
04:04
great
04:06
so from a holistic perspective how
04:10
i want to share the results from a
04:13
survey
04:14
done by the americans for the arts
04:17
council in 2018
04:19
they surveyed a large swath of the
04:23
population in north america
04:25
and found that the vast majority of
04:28
americans
04:29
91 of americans
04:33
believe that arts and culture and arts
04:37
and culture facilities
04:39
improve the quality of life
04:45
additionally 86 percent
04:49
believe that the arts is important to
04:52
local businesses
04:53
and to the economy
04:57
so when you invest in the arts you are
05:00
investing
05:00
in an american idea of creativity and
05:03
entrepreneurialism
05:05
and supporting an entire economy of
05:08
creative work
05:08
and creative business
05:13
the urban land institute published a
05:17
study on creative place making
05:18
strategies
05:19
just in 2020 creative place making
05:23
has been cited as one of
05:26
the top ways to improve your property
05:30
to build uh rapport with the community
05:34
and to
05:35
raise awareness and help
05:38
bring together hope for our communities
05:42
coming out of this pandemic and so
05:45
it’s not just it’s not
05:49
not just an impact on your own property
05:51
but it’s almost it’s a public benefit in
05:53
a way
05:54
right this is a big calling that we have
05:59
and so you know i’ll read you a quote
06:02
from the urban land institute mary lee
06:04
utter put this together
06:06
from civ adventure associates she said
06:08
as cities struggle to rebuild and come
06:10
back from pandemic devastation
06:12
economic social physical
06:16
creative place making and this means
06:18
working in the arts
06:19
is perhaps our most powerful tool
06:22
for renewal using culture as a
06:25
foundation reinforces
06:27
inclusivity it reinforces equity
06:29
authenticity
06:31
to the local community and the result is
06:33
a highly
06:34
marketable approach that naturally
06:37
attracts both public and private
06:39
partners
06:41
and they also speak in this publication
06:44
from uli’s report
06:46
on how private and community developers
06:48
alike
06:49
like to focus on the details of creating
06:51
places that thrive and endure
06:54
so this is an endurance tactic yeah it’s
06:57
a
06:58
very good point right and i think a lot
07:00
of our listeners can appreciate that
07:02
particularly
07:03
investors that have invested in in some
07:06
of the tougher locations
07:08
right the reality is when you
07:12
buy a property that is tends to be run
07:14
down
07:15
and you you make improvements to that
07:18
property
07:19
very often you are at the forefront of
07:22
not just improving that property and
07:24
improving the tenant base there but also
07:27
once you have another landlord joining
07:29
in with the neighboring properties where
07:31
they
07:32
really make an impact on the
07:34
neighborhood and improve the
07:35
neighborhood as a whole
07:37
and that’s just improving the properties
07:39
right so now naturally once you add also
07:42
art to it in the neighborhood whether
07:45
it’s a building or in the
07:46
common places it creates a more
07:50
attractive environment
07:51
and i would say our
07:54
certainly some of our listeners
07:57
appreciate that your your words there
08:00
because that’s really something
08:02
that they have experienced just with
08:05
with improvements to their own property
08:07
so that’s a
08:08
it’s a very good point and i’d add also
08:11
you know i think when we talk to
08:12
investors
08:13
you know it’s not uncommon for them to
08:16
articulate you know different strategies
08:19
as to how they
08:20
try to um you know generate a stickiness
08:23
to their property
08:24
a connection if you will and i think
08:26
that we’ll probably find when we look
08:28
back through this period
08:29
some of the more invest successful
08:31
investors were folks that figured out a
08:33
way to
08:34
have their property connect on a
08:35
personal level
08:37
with their tenants and have some type of
08:39
you know a greater sense of community
08:41
um i’ve talked to investors here in the
08:44
last six
08:44
you know six months or so where you know
08:47
i think that
08:48
folks that seem to have the capacity
08:51
through their management system to have
08:53
a personal connection
08:54
um you know i think at times had better
08:58
collections during a very
08:59
you know stressful period and this is
09:01
just another
09:02
way to possibly be able to do that and
09:04
i’d be curious to kind of
09:05
hear what martha has to say as to how
09:07
different investors can approach this
09:09
that type of problem and create some
09:11
solutions
09:14
i i think that’s a great point john
09:16
about being sticky
09:17
and then providing something that is
09:20
attractive that people want to come back
09:22
to
09:23
and on a personal level i can share a
09:27
story
09:27
with nine dot arts we grew through
09:31
we grew rapidly through five different
09:33
commercial office leases
09:35
in the early stage of our company and so
09:38
we were
09:38
i felt like as a ceo my job was just
09:41
commercial real estate lease negotiation
09:43
because it was like every time we got
09:44
settled we’d have to figure out and
09:46
you know find a new place to go and do a
09:49
lease renewal
09:50
so eventually we wisened up and started
09:52
taking notice of what all
09:54
our clients in development were doing
09:56
and we invested when we had the
09:57
capital to do so in a small office condo
10:02
the office condo was in a district that
10:05
you know took off we
10:06
we invested in in what became an arts
10:08
district
10:10
and i have let me tell you the kind of
10:13
money you can make in doing
10:14
well in real estate this is not what you
10:16
can do in the arts so
10:18
um you guys haven’t figured out you’re
10:20
definitely in the right industry i love
10:21
the industry i’m in but
10:23
uh real estate you know if you do it
10:25
right has some great return potential
10:27
when we um sold our office condo so we
10:30
uh we were in the rhino
10:32
river north arts district in denver we
10:34
sold our office condo there at
10:37
top of market and then we moved
10:40
to an area called lojai which is where
10:42
we are now the lower highlands
10:43
neighborhood
10:44
of denver and here we have
10:48
we’ve purchased a lot it’s a 19 000
10:52
square foot lot
10:53
with a 6400 square foot
10:56
commercial commercial office space
11:00
but let me tell you about this
11:01
commercial office space we’re in a 1956
11:04
food distribution warehouse so we’re in
11:06
an
11:07
old warehouse building and we renovated
11:10
the inside to really be attractive for
11:12
our staff you know we’ve got different
11:15
zones where people can interact we have
11:19
open an open office plan we have a
11:22
lounge we have a room where you can nap
11:24
we’ve got some small breakout rooms a
11:27
nice kitchen
11:28
these beautiful large-scale meeting
11:31
rooms where you can look at artwork in
11:32
person
11:35
and in the pandemic guess how many
11:37
in-person meetings we’ve had
11:39
to see artwork
11:42
zero since march and we are still
11:46
thriving
11:47
and growing and our clients have adapted
11:50
with
11:50
us so we’re now living in this digital
11:53
world
11:54
but we’re a creative company and
11:57
creative companies thrive when people
11:59
come together
12:01
and have these somewhat spontaneous
12:05
interactions
12:07
that bring new ideas to life so
12:11
as a business owner in charge of the you
12:14
know
12:14
leasing real estate decisions of our
12:16
company
12:18
we have decided to invest
12:21
in creating a mural project so we’re in
12:24
this
12:24
industrial warehouse and on the outside
12:28
you know we’re not
12:28
our the outside of our building it’s not
12:30
much to look at it’s a warehouse right
12:32
so we are investing in doing a mural
12:36
project a community mural project in
12:38
2021 for nine dot arts
12:40
as a way to engage our staff and
12:42
encourage people to come back to the
12:44
office
12:45
so this is our tactic for not only
12:48
raising awareness for our our company
12:50
through our building and what we do
12:52
but it’s also a tactic to attract people
12:54
to our space again
12:55
attract our own staff back and our own
12:57
team back to our
12:59
to our office we’ve been serving our
13:02
staff through the pandemic
13:04
and one of the things that our staff
13:05
told us when we asked what do you miss
13:07
about being in the office and they said
13:09
we miss seeing real
13:11
art so we’re we’re going to invest more
13:14
in real art because people want to be
13:15
around it
13:18
again i mean we might have a bias
13:20
audience of course because everyone is
13:21
in our industry right they love what
13:23
they do
13:24
um but you know that’s i think that’s a
13:26
good story personally that shows
13:29
what we’ve decided to to contribute
13:31
ourselves
13:32
um to enhance the value of our property
13:37
by by making it a social space
13:40
for our creative team yeah that’s a
13:43
great point
13:44
uh obviously for uh for
13:47
some of some buildings uh hard
13:50
installations
13:51
inside the building or is a is a crucial
13:54
piece
13:55
right but for some others it might not
13:57
be that much
13:58
like apartment buildings particularly
14:00
older ones that are maybe that were
14:02
built in the 60s 70s and 80s
14:06
a lot of investors we know what they
14:09
have done is
14:12
using pop collars right to kind of
14:15
create that that appeal for the property
14:18
that it stands out for
14:19
from other properties in the
14:21
neighborhood and i think
14:22
a lot of them had had a large success
14:25
obviously signage is also very important
14:28
to
14:28
to uh to attract potential tenants
14:32
some of them also we know have have done
14:34
more murals
14:36
uh some of them look pretty nice soros
14:39
uh i would say
14:41
probably not that attractive but they
14:43
still did them
14:44
in order to to stand out and i think it
14:48
might be worthwhile for for some
14:50
property owners really to
14:52
think of hiring a professional company
14:55
uh like like mardus uh just to to get a
14:59
better
15:00
uh uh to to to get a professional advice
15:04
on how
15:04
uh how that mural should should look
15:07
like right
15:08
uh so uh martha uh
15:12
how when we talk obviously you talk
15:14
about uh holistic
15:15
uh part uh could you uh talk to us a
15:18
little bit
15:19
more about the the the
15:22
dollar side right in terms of what is
15:25
what is required really
15:27
to make an impact that at the property
15:30
to get the
15:31
proper art uh artwork in place
15:35
uh that is suitable for from a cost
15:38
perspective obviously for the property
15:40
owner or developer
15:41
but also makes it attractive for for the
15:44
tenants and the visitors
15:46
sure yeah because i think you have to
15:49
think about both
15:50
right i mean there’s there’s um the
15:53
holistic
15:54
aspects of it and then of course you
15:57
know
15:57
you want to make sure that there is true
15:59
roi on any of your investments
16:02
so i’d like to reference a few
16:05
statistics that i pulled for our
16:07
conversation that were recently
16:09
published by the city of seattle’s
16:11
department called for
16:12
culture so the city of seattle has
16:15
an arts administration program within
16:17
their municipality
16:19
and the city of seattle’s public art
16:22
program is one of the oldest in the
16:24
country they began in 1976
16:26
and by public art program i mean that
16:29
they have a percent for art so all
16:31
municipal buildings have a percent for
16:32
art requirement
16:33
where our work is required to be a part
16:36
of those municipal developments
16:38
and so the city of seattle has invested
16:41
time because
16:42
each year you know there’s a
16:45
conversation about
16:46
making sure that there is return on
16:48
investment for the city’s
16:51
economic contributions so i think their
16:53
research is really forward thinking
16:55
because they’re one of the
16:56
oldest programs in the united states
17:00
and they’ve had the longest to figure
17:01
out a lot of the the kinks of the system
17:04
and their most recent report in 2020 was
17:08
called the market forces argument
17:11
for arts or cultural space and the
17:13
naturally occurring benefits
17:16
so they have a few interesting
17:19
statistics for example
17:22
they’ve shown that there are multiple
17:24
benefits that correlate with the
17:25
presence of the arts
17:27
and they talk about
17:30
blocks that include at least one a
17:33
cultural
17:33
asset have shown a nine point walk score
17:38
so the presence of having a cultural
17:41
asset or a cultural
17:42
space can indicate that your block will
17:44
have a higher density of other walkable
17:46
amenities so a single point of walk
17:48
score has been shown to increase
17:50
up to 34 000 dollars per unit
17:55
commercial grid squares in seattle that
17:57
contain cultural spaces have an average
17:59
walk score of just
18:01
below 90. and the city-wide average for
18:04
commercial grid squares is 81
18:06
very walkable so the nine-point bump
18:10
that correlates with a cultural space
18:12
presence represents
18:14
a potential of three hundred thousand
18:17
dollars
18:18
of impact price per unit
18:22
and then if you look at the asset
18:23
overall so asset valuation
18:25
both nationally and locally the presence
18:28
of arts and cultural spaces and
18:30
neighborhoods correlates directly with a
18:31
rise in property value
18:34
we know this and in many cases
18:36
researchers from the national trust
18:38
write the presence of arts or cultural
18:41
spaces just
18:42
strongly associated with steep increases
18:44
in property value
18:47
and then they also talk about spaces
18:49
being more
18:50
photographed so a block with arts
18:53
or culture cultural spaces involved
18:57
and we’ll see about three times more
18:59
photographs uploaded
19:02
to social media sites like instagram or
19:04
flickr as an equivalent block without
19:06
the arts or without cultural assets
19:11
there are some additional uh notes that
19:14
came through and benefits from
19:15
new york city but i think i’ll just
19:16
pause right there and
19:18
see if any of that resonates with you
19:21
i’m curious what you think about those
19:22
statistics yeah
19:25
i think that’s that’s extremely valuable
19:28
right then
19:31
particularly as a property owner right
19:33
you always want
19:35
your property be standing out compared
19:37
to
19:38
everyone else right and because you you
19:41
are in competition with with neighboring
19:44
properties
19:45
and in other sub-markets within the city
19:48
so unless you stand out you are
19:52
you just blend in and once you blend in
19:54
how how do you attract
19:56
tenants and visitors right uh
19:59
so i think that’s that’s exactly what is
20:02
happening here
20:03
right with these statistics what they
20:05
show is that
20:06
uh through through it’s more attractive
20:09
for people to visit but also
20:11
thanks to social media even if you are
20:14
an apartment building if you have
20:16
some attractive art it’s more likely
20:18
that tenants
20:19
take a picture in front of that art or
20:22
just
20:23
take a picture of the art and post it
20:25
which then
20:26
draws the interest from all the
20:28
prospective tenants right it
20:30
it absolutely makes sense
20:35
have you ever incorporated artwork on
20:37
any of the properties that you’ve
20:38
invested in
20:39
uh yes we personally have i personally
20:43
have i’ve always had an interest in
20:45
in art and we
20:48
we have we have done that probably not
20:51
as
20:52
not at uh at in a very consistent
20:55
uh level uh right it’s it’s more through
20:59
through our interest in a in a
21:01
particular
21:02
art artist where we maybe have
21:06
bought some artwork or or have
21:09
uh curated as someone who does who
21:12
does some work some of it i would say
21:14
has worked well
21:16
orders probably were more kind of a
21:18
haphazard
21:20
uh approach to it and i think that’s
21:23
really the
21:24
i would say uh was the challenge for us
21:27
because we are not specialists in it
21:29
right so similar to
21:30
we are specialists in financing but as
21:33
soon as we try to
21:35
to touch other order areas we think we
21:38
know what we are doing but we do not
21:40
really
21:41
fully understand the impact so it’s only
21:43
has worked but
21:45
i would say we probably would have been
21:47
well advised to
21:49
to seek out uh professional advice
21:52
before we just
21:52
went out and and did whatever we felt
21:55
was the right thing to do
21:58
so in the ones that you feel like worked
22:00
well can you tell us more about that
22:02
experience
22:03
or uh how you feel like that kind of
22:05
brought maybe brought the property to
22:07
life
22:07
yeah i would say it’s it’s it’s mostly
22:10
that the curb appeal that
22:12
that’s only improved the visibility
22:15
so where very verve uh
22:19
the property was just more visible right
22:21
it was no longer just
22:22
one of many but was really standing out
22:25
uh
22:26
in that particular on in that particular
22:28
block
22:30
and i would say that was the was the
22:32
main benefit
22:33
right that people actually remembered
22:35
that property
22:38
without having to say the name right so
22:40
that was the
22:41
was the main benefit now that’s for
22:44
where i personally was involved on
22:46
investing site but also for a lot of our
22:49
clients very
22:50
help with the financing there are a
22:53
number of examples where
22:55
the impact of of of art installations
22:59
and particularly murals uh have had
23:02
have had a great impact where suddenly a
23:05
property was mentioned in the local
23:07
newspaper right because they had a mural
23:09
there
23:11
but before that property had a had a
23:14
kind of a
23:14
negative vibe to it and it was mentioned
23:18
on multiple locations
23:19
as a more of a problematic property in
23:22
in
23:23
in that market and suddenly with the
23:25
improvements of of the property overall
23:28
as well as this installation of a mural
23:31
now it’s only everyone talk positive
23:34
about it right
23:35
so for them also the impact was was
23:38
extremely
23:39
uh positive and i would say
23:42
there is it’s not really any reason for
23:45
someone not not to consider it
23:47
right i would say it’s uh
23:50
everyone probably will agree right that
23:52
it’s that it
23:54
helps the question is how much can
23:58
has someone to spend in order to achieve
24:01
it right i
24:01
think that is something that you may
24:04
also want to touch
24:06
what what is something what is a cost
24:09
that
24:10
one should expect in order to get kind
24:12
of a basic
24:13
odd installation and how much should one
24:17
expect once you
24:18
add a little bit maybe more uh
24:21
higher quality art right obviously there
24:24
are different ranges of art as always
24:26
but if you could tell us a little bit
24:28
about what the ranges are and one
24:31
what the investors should expect
24:34
sure so i’ll talk about price per square
24:36
foot
24:37
and also in thinking about you know the
24:40
cost
24:41
for art and and what you should invest
24:44
it’s also important to think
24:45
what is the cost of not doing it right
24:47
so if you have a property that has
24:50
a reputation right and it’s it’s not uh
24:53
well received
24:54
and you need to do something to kind of
24:57
reverse
24:59
you know save tearing it down and
25:01
rebuilding or
25:02
completely gutting you know art is
25:05
actually
25:05
in that instance an incredibly
25:08
affordable option
25:09
based on all of the potential things you
25:11
can do
25:13
your example of a mural on the exterior
25:15
is
25:16
such a great tool to completely revamp
25:20
the image of a property and to do it
25:24
in frankly a cost-effective way because
25:27
what other
25:27
material are you going to find that will
25:30
bring as much value to a property
25:33
than paint right i mean
25:36
you’re you’re paying for the labor and
25:38
the creative concept
25:39
and for paint so this is much a much
25:43
more effective medium
25:45
and much more effective material and of
25:48
course there are going to be times where
25:50
you need to re-skin
25:51
an entire project but there are also
25:53
times when a mural works really well
25:57
so that’s an exterior application and
25:59
you know we’ve done
26:01
single wall mural applications that have
26:03
ranged
26:04
from you know 30 000
26:08
total budget including our fees to
26:11
research and find the artist and oversee
26:13
the process the artist fees the lift
26:16
uh all the way up to 180
26:19
000 for really large scale works you
26:22
know going on the outside of
26:25
multi-story parking garages on both
26:28
sides that you can
26:30
you know we’re talking about mural
26:32
installations that you can see
26:34
from half a mile away on the interstate
26:37
so the people know where this building
26:39
is
26:40
it’s incredibly effective tool and i’d
26:42
love to
26:43
share some images with you all
26:45
afterwards maybe you can share with your
26:46
audience
26:47
of some of the projects that we
26:48
completed just in the past year
26:50
that one i was first referencing is
26:52
called the rev 360 project
26:54
it’s also interestingly enough in the
26:57
river north arts district
26:59
in denver and you can see that building
27:01
from i-70
27:03
and it’s six or seven blocks in but you
27:05
see the mural because it stands out
27:07
it’s iconic and that’s what draws you to
27:10
that building
27:11
there are gosh probably 25 apartment
27:13
complexes in that neighborhood
27:15
that one you know everyone knows exactly
27:17
which one that one is
27:20
so that’s an important thing to think
27:22
about you know you could
27:24
if it’s large scale you need to plan for
27:27
six figures
27:28
if it’s smaller scale you need to plan
27:30
for mid-range five figures
27:33
and when you’re talking about the
27:35
interior
27:36
you can do the same kind of technique on
27:39
the interior of bringing
27:40
high impact moments now
27:43
when we are advising clients i always
27:47
say you want to think about impact and
27:50
quality over quantity
27:52
so you want to have high impact moments
27:54
that are going to shape people’s memory
27:56
and experience of the space
27:59
rather than feeling like you have to
28:00
plaster posters up and down the
28:03
corridors
28:04
so i’ll give you a price per square
28:08
footage range
28:09
and please know that this is based on
28:12
the floor plate
28:13
right not the square footage of the art
28:15
but the floor plate of the building
28:17
if you’re in apartments you can think of
28:18
this as your amenity space or your
28:20
public areas
28:21
and what you’ll what you’ll want to do
28:24
is make sure that there is
28:26
a strategic approach to allocating this
28:29
budget
28:30
rather than just saying oh okay one
28:33
equals one right
28:34
one location should be significant
28:38
should have significantly more hierarchy
28:40
if it’s in the
28:41
main entrance or the main lobby uh
28:45
should be you know rated as a top
28:47
priority
28:48
with a greater budget than you know a
28:50
smaller work that goes
28:52
in the public restroom or in the
28:54
corridor right
28:56
so uh we always start at 350
28:59
a square foot three dollars and fifty
29:01
cents per square foot that’s going to
29:03
give you the world of options
29:05
in original artworks you’ll be able to
29:08
have source from people who are local
29:10
and national and really have a good pick
29:14
of artists if you need to scale
29:17
back you can do a mixture of original
29:21
artworks with posters
29:23
posters are limited in scale they’re in
29:26
like physically how big you can create
29:28
them
29:29
and they’re also going to be limiting
29:33
in terms of how much you can work with
29:35
the local community because usually
29:37
posters are coming from
29:38
mass-produced warehouses but you could
29:40
do a blend of some
29:42
posters or limited edition of prints and
29:44
some originals
29:45
on a budget of 250 per square foot
29:49
and then if you’re going to 1.50 per
29:53
square foot
29:54
you’re really going to be looking at
29:56
options that are just in that poster or
29:58
limited edition reproduction stage
30:02
but you can still find artwork for for
30:05
your property at that level
30:07
so i hope that that’s useful in giving a
30:09
span of of approach
30:11
yes absolutely right so now obviously
30:14
one
30:15
always wonders well that’s potentially a
30:18
lot of money that is being spent
30:20
right but sean why do you only can agree
30:22
with me
30:23
we are visiting properties for property
30:27
inspections for the financing sites
30:31
year round we have seen hundreds of
30:34
properties
30:34
right and i think from an investor
30:37
perspective you also need to think
30:39
not just for for you as an investor and
30:41
for your tenants but also from a
30:43
financing perspective
30:45
it makes a big difference whether the
30:47
lenders appraiser and property condition
30:49
assessor
30:50
whether they have a positive view of of
30:53
that building that they are looking at
30:56
and we have seen some buildings that
30:59
have
31:00
just did a terrible job when it came to
31:03
to the interiors not just the outside
31:05
but also the interiors it just felt
31:07
outdated
31:08
and then some others that even though
31:10
there were 60s and 70s office buildings
31:13
and apartment buildings
31:15
because they focused on really creating
31:17
that wow effect in the lobby and all
31:20
that
31:21
the impact on the appraiser and the
31:23
property condition assessor
31:25
were immediately positive right so i
31:28
think that’s another element there that
31:30
is
31:30
it’s kind of important also to consider
31:34
uh that all the the partners that are
31:38
working with you including one of the
31:40
largest partner which is the
31:42
debt partner with the financing that
31:44
they have a positive
31:46
impact of uh of of your property
31:49
and uh raichon that’s uh
31:52
it has a big impact whether orlando
31:55
likes a deal
31:57
or doesn’t like a deal and the
32:00
appearance
32:02
is is a very important element to it
32:05
yes i mean we’re all human we’re all
32:08
human
32:09
the the appraisers the lenders the
32:12
engineers your team
32:14
we all experience things that
32:17
you know that can move us in positive or
32:20
negative ways
32:21
and it’s i don’t i really am so glad
32:24
that you brought up
32:26
the importance of that experience
32:30
of being in a space because
32:33
while so many parts of our life
32:36
have moved to the digital sphere in the
32:39
past year
32:40
things we may not have expected
32:43
yeah very very important point now
32:47
also for right a lot of our clients are
32:50
in the multi-family space
32:52
and unlike in uh
32:56
office space where you you have a tenant
32:59
that then signs a lease for
33:01
for five years or whatever it might be
33:03
three years or five years
33:05
uh in a you know with a typical lease
33:08
with multi-family properties you
33:10
essentially have prospective tenants
33:12
that come into your
33:14
leasing office every single day right
33:17
and
33:19
multi-family owners can tell you that
33:22
the
33:22
conversion uh is a is a key element
33:25
to keep the property full right so the
33:28
better you can convert
33:30
a prospective tenant right when they
33:32
walk into into your property
33:35
uh that’s that’s a big big gain
33:38
and obviously the appearance again of of
33:41
that space
33:42
is a is a is crucial and i would say
33:45
obviously in the a-class building
33:47
that’s already a given right everyone
33:49
expects that everything looks great
33:52
but it’s particularly important in my
33:54
view in b-class buildings and c-class
33:56
buildings
33:58
yes the c-class renter may not
34:02
necessarily appreciate the art as much
34:05
however they still get a
34:07
positive vibe right and if they feel
34:10
that the space looks nice and it’s
34:14
appealing
34:15
it’s much more likely that they also
34:16
trust you as a landlord
34:19
uh to run the property including their
34:22
own apartment that they’re renting
34:24
without without any issues so that if
34:26
there are maintenance issues that you’re
34:28
responding right
34:30
so you’re giving value signals about
34:33
about the thoroughness
34:34
of who you are as as a developer and a
34:37
property manager and a landlord
34:39
right so what is it that you value if
34:42
you take care
34:43
of the first impression well then surely
34:46
you’ll take care of all my other needs
34:47
as a tenant
34:49
yes yeah uh absolutely
34:52
right took the words out of my mouth
34:54
that i was
34:55
waiting to jump in there but i i think
34:57
that that is the perceived value that a
34:59
tenant has when they walk
35:01
a property you know if like you said if
35:04
you have that capacity for
35:05
you know some some level a while even if
35:07
they weren’t expecting it
35:09
so to anton’s point about the b and c
35:11
level property sometimes
35:13
um you know there may not be that
35:14
expectation that they’re going to have
35:16
you know the capacity for what they’re
35:18
paying in rent
35:19
to have a differentiated experience you
35:21
know if it works out in the ri for an
35:23
investor to figure that out
35:25
you know that has to put them in a
35:26
different tier versus another
35:28
run-of-the-mill property
35:30
you know you know blocks around of
35:33
you know 80s build 90s build properties
35:35
that
35:36
may not have that differentiator so
35:37
where do i want to spend my money and
35:39
put my family because these tenants at
35:42
times can
35:42
you know they’re not there for a couple
35:44
of years like you have an a class where
35:46
it’s
35:46
a younger profile tenant that might be
35:49
moving with jobs and eventually
35:51
permanent housing later down the road
35:54
these are folks that might come into a
35:55
property
35:56
and think about do i want to live here
35:58
for the next two three or four years
36:00
possibly
36:01
um you know we have a lot of investors
36:03
that have tenant profiles that just
36:05
don’t turn over
36:06
if they have the right elements in place
36:08
and this is possibly another way to
36:09
think about that
36:11
one and how do you
36:14
build in an a-class building right an
36:17
a-class building it’s expected
36:19
you have to really show a commitment to
36:22
culture and the arts and the finer
36:24
things right that is an expectation
36:27
of the audience you’re appealing to now
36:30
bn and c-class properties
36:33
who in a bnc class property wouldn’t
36:35
love to live in an a-class property
36:38
right and so you want them to feel like
36:40
there are touches of that
36:42
and and i’m not sure if you all remember
36:46
the statistics that came out
36:48
about the new york subway in the 1990s
36:52
the new york subway in the 1990s had
36:54
broken windows
36:56
and graffiti and it was dirty and like
36:59
all the bad
37:00
things happened so no one wanted to ride
37:02
the subway
37:04
they cleaned up that subway that c-class
37:06
subway
37:07
made it look like an a-class subway and
37:09
crime went down
37:10
people behaved better you know i just
37:13
wonder what’s the extent of the impact
37:15
you can make
37:16
when you start treating b and c class
37:19
tenants
37:19
like their a-class tenants right it
37:22
could even be a behavioral shift
37:25
yeah very good point yeah
37:28
so martha you you added a
37:32
great value here right so it was a very
37:34
unique discussion why compared to all
37:37
the
37:37
the order of uh investment this and
37:40
financing the discussions we are usually
37:42
having
37:43
and uh i’m sure of our audience
37:46
love to to hear your take on uh
37:50
on art installations uh in in commercial
37:53
real estate
37:55
uh so how can uh uh
37:58
people reach you marta oh yes so um
38:01
please check out our website
38:02
we’re at nine dot arts dot com it’s all
38:05
spelled out
38:06
n i n e d o t a
38:09
r t s dot com also if you wanna find me
38:13
personally i’m on
38:14
linkedin and instagram but on my
38:16
linkedin account you’ll find me
38:18
martha weidman and my last name is
38:20
spelled w-e-i-d-m-a-n-n
38:23
martha weidman on linkedin and nine dot
38:25
arts dot com
38:27
and i hope to meet some of you and see
38:29
you all there
38:30
okay that’s that’s great so uh
38:33
on on your website uh do you also have
38:36
some of
38:37
the installations that you mentioned is
38:39
there a portfolio there
38:41
yes there is in fact on our website you
38:43
can actually go at the top banner
38:45
there’s a page that shows
38:47
projects by industry so there’s an
38:48
industries page and you can go see
38:50
examples
38:51
of projects that were created in the
38:54
multi-family
38:55
hospitality space you can see project
38:58
examples
38:59
from the healthcare corporate
39:03
mixed use public art projects
39:07
master plan work that we’ve done but
39:09
definitely check out the multifamily
39:11
residential
39:12
for this audience it’ll give you a good
39:14
sense of what’s happening in other
39:15
properties
39:16
around the country and hopefully give
39:18
you some inspiration of what you might
39:20
be able to do with your work
39:21
yeah very good thanks again martha and
39:25
to our audience please
39:28
reach out to martha when you have a
39:31
project
39:31
right from my own experience
39:35
i would say you’re well advised to talk
39:37
to someone who does it
39:39
on a daily basis right so you may think
39:41
that you know what you’re doing
39:43
but uh it’s it’s only worthwhile to have
39:46
a concise
39:47
uh uh a picture of
39:50
uh of of that uh of what you’re planning
39:53
to do and uh
39:54
individual like marta and her firm or
39:57
are our perfect partners for that thanks
40:00
again martha for
40:01
for joining us thank you anton thank you
40:04
john
40:05
thank you thank you